Curse

actionjack · Jul 18, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Need the forumers to give this idea some feed back in how practical and balance this would be. The idea is Changeable Skill Belt, where you are allow to change your whole skill belt to another pre-set skill belt, while in mission, exploration area, and PvP.

It’s a solution to a problem, where as more skills are added into the game, there need to be more ways to utilized them, as well as counter them. Only having 8 skills in the skill belt is not enough to do the job. Therefore, with the ability to change your skill belts, you will be more adapt, think of more creative ways of skill combo, more able to take on greater challenge with more sense of accomplishment, meaning more fun. (also encourage player to play more to gain the skills, which is reflect good on dev’s part)

Here is the issue of balancing. It will operate like using another skill. First, you will have 3 skill bars, to be rotated by two small arrows (up and down arrow) on the side. You load up the skills you want in town, as you normally would do. When in battle, you can click the arrows anytime to change to one of your pre-set alternative skill belts. It will operate like another skill, with those “cost”:

0 Energy | 5 Second Casting | 5 Min Recharge: Easily interrupted when changing. 2% DP

*Every time you make change, you take 2% DP (stackable). This means you won't get much impact on a map if you just change once or twice, but anytime more, than it would start effecting you. (help to avoid run/farming in PvE). Also it make it more as an option, where one must judge to see if changing their skill will be enought to justify for the 2%DP.

As you can see, this is design to make it where you can’t change your belt in the midst of a battle, therefore its not making you having the ability to use more than 8 skills in battle, but just change them for different situation. Also note the 5 min of recharge, which mean you couldn’t quickly change back and forth of your skill in battle. Also keep in mind that your attribute cannot be change, and is the same as you set them before in town.

As said, its use would be to allow player to better adapt to different situations, and make more use of the skills. So in PvE, sometime it would be wise to change your built when going against different type of enemy group, such as an AoE built when facing multiple small enemies, while a interrupter when facing a boss. In PvP, it play more as a meta-meta game, where when detecting your enemies built, you can always change to one that would better suit as counter to it (assuming you could get a break in battle to change), of course, they might also change to counter your new built, all of which to create more exciting game play. Also it would be a easier way to counter those cookie-cutting gimmick builds, if you pack a gimmick killing built with you. It might even lessen the time of partying finding and team skill coordination. (of course, it might also make it longer…)

So, that is the good thing I see with this change of system. Feel free to point out any blind spots or possible abuse/misuse with this system. /Sign if you feel it is a good idea and a potential add in to the game. (also if you are saying no against it, please provide a possible playing example where this system might fail.. instead of just saying "I just don't like it")

copyleft AJ 06' Please Use with Credited

Rikimaru · Jul 18, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

I Think this is a fairly good idea, and I'd personally love to have this added. But I think you should have only 2 rows to switch between, and have attributes tied to them. I Think it should also take 15-20 seconds to switch, be easily interrupted like you said, and have no reset (or maybe only a 1-3 minute one).
In my oppinion it'd definately make GvG based more on skill and less on "Let's just go 'Balanced' and hope we don't run into <overpowered build-of-the-month>."

actionjack · Jul 18, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

I Think this is a fairly good idea, and I'd personally love to have this added. But I think you should have only 2 rows to switch between, and have attributes tied to them. I Think it should also take 15-20 seconds to switch, be easily interrupted like you said, and have no reset (or maybe only a 1-3 minute one).
In my oppinion it'd definately make GvG based more on skill and less on "Let's just go 'Balanced' and hope we don't run into <overpowered build-of-the-month>."

15-20 second is too long. It should be consider as "casting" while you are changing, thus no moving, attacking, or using any other skill. 5 should be good enough. Recharget time at 5 min should be long enough where people won't abuse it for extended carry on skills. I don't want to see attribute tied to them, that is change your built way too much. You could have differnt purpose, but should still best specialize in one area.

TadaceAce · Jul 18, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Lol is this a joke? the whole point having 8 skills is balance, making so you have 16 is stupid. You could run practically two different builds...

Rikimaru · Jul 18, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

5 Seconds seems way too fast to me, it's still possible to do that in a fight with it in that range.

actionjack · Jul 18, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

Lol is this a joke? the whole point having 8 skills is balance, making so you have 16 is stupid. You could run practically two different builds...

Actually, its 24 skills.

And please stat better of what might be wrong with it. (as read in OP, I said having 3 build is good, and attempt ways to blance against people using it for 24 skills.)

lyra_song · Jul 18, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

I think i would agree on Izzy on his comments for swapping skills/side deck idea that it would create an unecessary complication for the game.

actionjack · Jul 18, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I think i would agree on Izzy on his comments for swapping skills/side deck idea that it would create an unecessary complication for the game.

I believe that one design concept of the game is to to have "Skill over Time play", where your skill in chosing and using your skills would help you win the day. Does that still hold the true in today's PvP?

While I will admit that I don't have much exp in PvP, but from all reports, it seems people are moving to more specialized builts, over the balance builts of yesterday. This means luck, weither you are fortunate to meet a foe who's build you are design to counter and kill, or unluck in meeting a foe who's build are specific deisng to kill you, is the main part of game. Skill is giving away to luck.

If you have the ablity to change your built in game (to a limted degree), than you have more say over your winning or loosing factor, instead of luck. If you are a warrior, who does not have any skill in countering a kitting ranger, won't you want to have the option of retreating, and change your built that could help better in overcome that foe? Skill and strategy is what I hope to see in the game, and not overly specialized build and luck that you face the right oppoent.

arcanemacabre · Jul 18, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

I like your idea and would support it. However, GW PvP seems to be highly based on the ol' Rock-Paper-Scissors. That doesn't ONLY mean that build A conquers build B which conquers build C which conquers build A... it also means that you don't know what your opponent is going to do until they do it.

It's a sad state, I think, but it is kinda true to real life warfare to a degree. This option would make for more chess-like play, and will favor the more strategic-minded. I'm sure there are kinks, like how long the 'cast time' should be and what-not, but for now I'm /signing it.

titan0987 · Jul 18, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

/notsigned

Stick with 8 skills, it's worked so far, why change it?

actionjack · Jul 18, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I like your idea and would support it. However, GW PvP seems to be highly based on the ol' Rock-Paper-Scissors. That doesn't ONLY mean that build A conquers build B which conquers build C which conquers build A... it also means that you don't know what your opponent is going to do until they do it.

It's a sad state, I think, but it is kinda true to real life warfare to a degree. This option would make for more chess-like play, and will favor the more strategic-minded. I'm sure there are kinks, like how long the 'cast time' should be and what-not, but for now I'm /signing it.

Funny.. I was just thinking of the Rock-Papper-Scissor vs. Chess (luck vs strategy) Analogy just before I read your post. Guess all the hot and sexy people think alike.

Anyhow, counter-attack is always a fun part to a strategic game. Knowing what your enemies weaknees, and strike hard. Of couse, they will counter attack back next time, and the back and forth make it fun. (it might also reduce people disconnect after they are dead, as they might hope to get rez, and get back to their killer with their now changed built)

actionjack · Jul 18, 2006, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by titan0987

/notsigned

Stick with 8 skills, it's worked so far, why change it?

Reason is in the OP, as well as some of the replies up above.

It work... but can it work better? Are you saying the game have no room to improve and its the best of the best, the max of fun? That the suggestion forum is obsolete?

Its the hope not to change what work, but to improve to make it work better.

Also I am zealously defending my idea not only because I think it is a good one and deserve defending, but also because the weather is hot, my graphic card burn down, and I cann't play any game.

damocles · Jul 18, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

/not signed

I don't see why you want to implent this. For PvE it might be nice, but in PvP I don't see this happening. The fact that the game is a team based game says you aren't on your own in a PvP battle. There is always someone that has some counter to a skill. I also get the feeling the player skill level and creativeness in battles will drop.

Kai Nui · Jul 18, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

This sounds A LOT like Spellborn's system of skills...

Also, if you're in PVE and you need to change skills then you should leave guild wars. Create a better build that's more broad and try again with a build that's more effective towards what you're playing against, it's not like they're going to change thier builds on you or anything.

Liu · Jul 18, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

El oh El. Quite the funny suggestion, you joker you.

Undivine · Jul 18, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

I don't know. Being able to change your entire build on the fly seems like it's a bit much.

I will say this though, try doing all of FoW with, say, a mesmer. Mesmers are tremendously good at countering very specific things, but to try and be a general mesmer is not easy in PvE, especially with large, vast areas like FoW with a wide variety of enemies.

Furthermore, if you actually have no idea what to expect in a mission, it can be rather difficult. Whenever I take my monk into an area I'm unfamiliar with, I try to gather as much research as I can: Do they remove enchantments? If so, how much enchantment removal? Do they use a lot of conditions? Which kind? How much hexing? Is there spike damage? NPCs to protect? Interruption? Constant, non-stop fighting or patient progression? All of those things affect my build, and when I first get into a chapter, it is not uncommon for me to go in with a build that just isn't very apropriate for the situation.

So a little bit of skill changing would be welcome. Perhaps some of the larger areas should have an NPC that allows you to change 1 or 2 skills in much the same manner you would when you get a skill from a quest reward.

Changing the whole belt though... seems a bit too generous.

SpeedyKQ · Jul 18, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Hm, another thought, along the same lines:

What if you could leave empty slots in your skillbar, and fill them as desired as you play? Once a skill goes onto your bar, you can't remove it or change it. It would give people a bit of flexibility, without really breaking the 8-skill rule.

Evilsod · Jul 18, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Skill sets for quick change in outposts. Fine.
Skill sets for quick change in battles, not a chance in hell.

I'm sure there are many places a mesmer would like to randomly switch between Anti Caster to Anti Warrior. But its just not happening.

/notsigned

actionjack · Jul 18, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

I am also going to add another cost: Every time you make change, you take 2% DP (stackable).
Reason will be:

This means you won't get much impact on a map if you just change once or twice, but anytime more, than it would start effecting you. (help to avoid run/farming in PvE). Also it make it more as an option, where one must judge to see if changing their skill will be enought to justify for the 2%DP.
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And please read the whole thing before you disagree. I fully agree with Evilsod on "Skill sets for quick change in battles, not a chance in hell."... therefore, the cost of it.

CHUIU · Jul 18, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

People have suggested in the past that you get 2 rings in which you can assign skills to. And in battle you can switch up to 2 skills from your bar immediately but there would be a 15 minute recharge to switch skills per ring. In other words if I saw someone was using a lot enchants I swap out a skill for a disenchant, theres now a 15 minute recharge on that ring. A little bit later I see someone is using a lot of slow casting spells so I switch out a skill for power drain or something, that ring now has a 15 minute recharge too.

An alternate to every 15 minutes would be the same as res signet. You can only use it once and it gets recharged by morale boosts, new maps, killing a boss, etc.